The Hickensian
18.02.05 Omniweb wishlist II
Since my first Omniweb Wishlist, 2 of the wishes have happened, RSS feeds now open in new tabs, and its merged with the latest webcore. Since then, 5.1 has been released, and the list has grown somewhat.
I use a mixture of Omniweb and Safari all the time now. Nowadays, Firefox only gets opened up for DOM inspecting or javascript debugging, and Camino hasn’t been used in over a year. The main thing that makes me use Safari is that its interface is a whole lot easier on the eye than Omniweb. OW has the all features I want (apart from find as you type, which I get from Saft), but after prolonged use, areas of the UI make me long for Safari. It’s probably just the designer in me, but I desire a little more ‘OS X slickness’ that other apps have. The tab drawer and bookmark manager feel just right, but other areas let it down for me.
So here are a few wishes.
Interface tweaks -remove the drawer?
When I have Mail, Ecto, xPad and others open, I get a bit sick of flippin’ drawers everywhere, and long for a simplified outline like Safari.
Here’s an idea. Apps like Ecto and NetNewsWire have started adopting the interface evolution shown in the Tiger version of Mail, and its worked well for them. The fact that Apple has removed the drawer from Mail makes me wonder if many other apps will continue to use it? Anyway, here’s a mockup of how Omniweb could look with these sorts of changes:
As you can see, the tabs become more like a sidebar. This screenshot also includes mockups of other wee interface changes I’d like to see:
- Download Manager – Aqua alternate row striping to differentiate each item, and larger file icons, as in Safari, NetNewsWire 2, Transmit 3 and Unison.
- Favourites Bar – No folder icons or shadow. A bit more safarish I guess.
RSS Reader
Omniweb’s RSS Reader is so almost there as a useful aggregator. It has more features than you might expect from an in-browser solution, but its drawbacks are:
- The only way to read excerpts is to view the feed bookmark with ‘site info’ showing.
- Omniweb doesn’t seem to handle large amounts of feeds very well. With 150+ feeds, my bookmarks refuse to synchronise with .mac (but works fine once they’re removed). There were also other performance issues until I deleted all the feeds.
- You can’t set a frequency to update feeds globally. If you have ‘never’ checked in your preferences, each feed you add has a daily frequency applied to it despite this. So if you only want to check manually, you have edit the preferences for each feed individually.
This is how I’d like to see RSS incorporated:
- Keep them as bookmarks, but treat them separately. In the same way that you can view bookmarks as a tab, have the ability to view RSS feeds in a tab, with a simple 2 or 3 paned interface, like the bookmark manager. All the information is already there – source, headline, dates, excerpts, I wonder if it would be hard to bring them together in a new interface?
- Have the preference to pass auto-detected feeds onto your default RSS Reader if you don’t want to use the in-built one.
- It’d be great if the dock menu didn’t hide feeds over a certain amount. The greyed out ‘more’ doesn’t allow you to see the rest of the feeds. NetNewsWire overcomes this by scrolling if it needs to.
Other functionality I’d love to see at some point
- Find as you type – FIrefox has an excellent implementation of this, but currently Omniweb will only do this with links. (There is a hidden preference which you can enable via the terminal, but its not something OmniGroup have worked on, and it will only find the first instance of your search term)
- I’d like a better idea of when Omniweb is doing something. Whether its still checking RSS feeds, synchronising bookmarks or whether those activites have finished. The Activity window tells you this, but I would find a Growl message more useful. Growl is already an excellent system wide notification app, and many apps have started using it. There are many apps already supporting Growl.
- Apply custom CSS files per-site in the site preferences.
- Drag and drop tabs between workspaces in the workspaces window. So if you have some tabs that you want to move to another workspace, you can move them, or alt-drag them to copy them across.
- Open a search in a new tab. The Location bar supports this with cmd-enter, but not the search field
- Saft has a great feature whereby a search is triggered by selecting a different search engine from the search fields drop down menu, rather than having to additionally press enter.
- A preference to always show the tab drawer. When new windows open drawer-less, and then shift as tabs are opened, is mildly annoying. (I always have the drawer on the left).
- A preference to disable the focus rings around the search box.
Bugs
No application is perfect, and everyone has their list of pet hates they’d rather were fixed sooner rather than later. This is mine.
- The pixellated search bar after resizing the window
- Moving bookmarks and folders in the bookmark manager creates a duplicate. This one is really starting to annoy me.
- View Source: This still has the bug whereby you sometimes get the external css file, or even garbage code instead of just the HTML.
Everyone’s a critic eh?
So yeah, a long list. Don’t get the wrong impression though, its still very much a favourite. I’m just looking forward to seeing what Omnigroup do with it next.
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∞ Oliver said 1817 days ago:
So right, I’d switch to OmniWeb isntantly if it wasn’t for that darn drawer.∞ Paul D said 1817 days ago:
I’ve trying out Omniweb 5.1 for the last few days, and finding it a great improvement over 5.0, speed-wise. I haven’t dabbled much with workspaces, but they look pretty neat.The main thing I miss is the smart way that Safari does auto-completion for a web form that I use every day for work. I simply type the first letter into each input field and Safari auto-completes with the text string that I most frequently enter into those boxes. Very handy. Omniweb, on the other hand, simply gives a suggestion list of everything I’ve ever entered into a form starting with that letter.
I also wish there was a way to capture all links in tabs like Firefox can. And I miss the raw interface speed of Camino.
Aggregating RSS feeds is not something I want in my browser in the moment, so I can’t comment on those features. I prefer a stand-alone client like NewsNetWire that gives me a dock indicator whenever a feed is updated.
∞ Dan said 1817 days ago:
Awesome mock-up. Some of the ideas you present could make OW the perfect Mac browser∞ Jordan said 1817 days ago:
You spoiled Mac-ers… you’ve got about five incredible browsers, and all you can do is whine about how they aren’t perfect.Just kidding, if I paid that much for a computer, and that much for a browser (both of which are worth it, I’m sure), I’d be picky, too. I guess it’s just part of the Mac mindset. PC users tend to think along the lines of “what sucks least?”
∞ Mookie Kong said 1817 days ago:
I think the draw was cool to begin with, but it is a hassle now. I wish that Omnigroup would give an option to switch between the drawer and normal Safari/Camino/Firefox type tabs.∞ Jordan said 1817 days ago:
... and I just noticed that you’ve got some problems with your mockup… check the edges of your download window ;)∞ Jon Hicks said 1817 days ago:
“I also wish there was a way to capture all links in tabs like Firefox can.”Well, you can do ‘view links as bookmarks’, and open the folder of bookmarks in a new tab. Is that the same sort of thing?
”... and I just noticed that you’ve got some problems with your mockup… check the edges of your download window ;)”
Yeah, well, its just a mockup! There are other sloppy bits, such as the window title not being centered.
∞ Jordan said 1817 days ago:
I know, I’m just teasin’ ya. :)I think what Paul’s talking about is the firefox plugin that opens all links in the page in tabs. It’s really useful for things like news stories, since you can open all the relevant links in one shot. I’ve never used it personally, but it seems popular enough.
∞ Jon said 1817 days ago:
I’ve come up with my own system for when I prefer sidebars to drawers and vice versa: If I ALWAYS or ALMOST ALWAYS have it open, then it should be a sidebar. If I only open it occasionally, it should be a drawer.Thus, in NetNewsWire, my subscriptions are a sidebar and that’s perfect as I almost always want to look at them. But the Sites Drawer I rarely need to see, so that’s perfect as a drawer. In Apple Mail I always, always have the drawer open, so I’m glad to see it will become a sidebar in Tiger. For OmniWeb I almost always have the drawer open, so yeah, a sidebar will be nice. But I keep my drawer on the right, and all the apps I use with a sidebar are always left centric with no option to choose a side. That gives me a small amount of doubt, but I think I can adjust to the proposed change.
∞ Josh Bryant said 1817 days ago:
I have come to be really fond of drawers. I like my viewpoint window to be the same size ALL the time. If it is something that I will be hiding and showing, than when I show it, I don’t want it to shift my window size and shrink my viewpoint.This is really noticeable in SKEdit, when you have a site open, your viewpoint is much smaller than when you don’t, the window is the same size, but your code window is completely different.
I used to loath drawers when I was on 1024×768, but I have since fallen in love with them!
∞ Phill R Kenoyer said 1817 days ago:
I sure hope they don’t metalize it. In fact, I hate the look and feel of Safari. See, I put my Address in front of my forward and Back buttons. This way I don’t click the close button when I’m wanting to click the back button. I hate not being able to change the tool bar in Safari. I don’t like having the Google search input on the top either. I use shortcuts for my searches. Changing the drawer to a side bar is a good idea, although not that big of a change. I would rather that Omni fix the bugs and speed it up than make changes to the UI.∞ Philippe said 1817 days ago:
ref your drawer: Are we going back to the concept(s) introduced by IE5 Mac, ages ago ? Like the page holder in the side bar is so similar to the way Omni stores its tabs.The favourites bar, yep, the folder icons should go, that is a bit clutter. I do like the little bit of shadow on top, separating it from the top toolbar. Some more separation between the favorite toolbar and the actual html page would be nice.
Add my vote for the site specific user.css. I use this heavily in FireFox (nighty) with @URL rules. If a site provides a site ID, you can use the global OWuser.css for that, otherwise it is hard to target a specific site, beyond changing the font-size. Omniwebs per site prefs are a nice start, but geeks always want more… :-)
∞ Josh Bryant said 1816 days ago:
Phil –Safari 2.0 that will be shipping with OS X 10.4 has a standard cocoa toolbar that lets you rearrange just like most apps. Something to look forward to.
∞ Michel Christensen said 1816 days ago:
As mentioned in a previous post on your journal I gave OW a test spin. Right now I have OW installed, but I don’t use it. If it looked like your mockup, I’d install it right away, and use it as my primary browser.∞ Adriaan said 1816 days ago:
Yeah, I’m considering dropping drawers, too (no pun intended).∞ Jon Hicks said 1816 days ago:
#8 Jordan – Yeah thats what I mean. In OW you can choose ‘view links as bookmarks’ which creates a bookmark folder with all the links in that page. You can then choose ‘open in tabs’ to open all those links in new tabs.#9 Jon – thats a really good summary. I hadn’t thought about it in those terms before, but that makes a lot of sense.
#10 Josh – thats really interesting. Did you hear that somewhere, or do you have a copy?
∞ Amit Karmakar said 1816 days ago:
I do quite like the drawer feature actually and like you said given all the goodness of Firefox, After using Safaris rich sleek UI and then OmniWeb, Firefox on mac looks a tad insipid. I get there for the DOM and view CSS, page linearisation mainly. My serious browsing on mac is Omniweb for photography(color aware) sites followed by Safari. Although I have noticed OW to be a lot faster… generally speaking.∞ Chris Fonnesbeck said 1816 days ago:
The drawer is fine by me, so long as there is only one drawer. Just because some apple products start losing the drawer, it doesnt mean everyone else should follow suit. Apple isnt always right about design—just look at safari, and the brushed metal nonsense.OW’s biggest drawback is still performance. After using it exclusively for almost a month, I decided to try a Firefox nightly, and the difference was dramatic. Camino is even faster, though it lacks a complete feature set. Omniweb appears to be the slowest of the available (modern) browsers for OSX.
If OW was at least safari-fast, I would retain it as my primary browser.
∞ Brett said 1816 days ago:
Looks like you’re running the theme “One” that I made. Either that or your mockup just resembles it alot. If you are using it, I’m glad to see someone I look up to for design is using something that I made.∞ thomas marban said 1816 days ago:
any opinions on the current opera 8 beta so far?∞ Jon Hicks said 1816 days ago:
Opera 8? Well, actually its rather good I think. Opera is fast and multi-featured, and while some probably aren’t keen, I like the idea of integrating email with it.My main ‘put-offs’ are the non-native feel and over complicated interface.
∞ thomas marban said 1816 days ago:
i guess i can’t get used to the preview tabs of omniweb as they don’t allow you switch fast enough between them. apart from taking up just too much valuable space, even on a 15” pb∞ thomas marban said 1816 days ago:
btw: for those who didn’t get it later this week:http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html
∞ Paul D said 1815 days ago:
“I think what Paul’s talking about is the firefox plugin that opens all links in the page in tabs.”Actually, I was simply referring to links that force a new window to open. I never browse with more than one window and I would prefer Omniweb to open “new window links” either in a new tab, or in the same tab. Firefox has an option to capture all such links in a new tab instead of a new window, but I can’t find such an option for Omniweb.
As for the shelf, I don’t mind it, and I like the thumbnails. I do wish the little X for closing tabs was anti-aliased, and I turned off the Google searc-bar since its curved edges were ugly and non-anti-aliased.
∞ Jon Hicks said 1815 days ago:
Thomas – maybe its just my machine, but I can switch between tabs very quickly in OW. In fact its easier than Safari, when there are a lot of tabs – scrolling rather than clicking the >> chevrons.Paul D – If you want anti-aliased close tab buttons – download my theme !
∞ Jesse Wilson said 1815 days ago:
I’d like Omniweb to go one further on the tab drawer by allowing one to display it horizontally (preferably on the bottom). If I was graced with a screen larger (and as a result, a higher screen resolution) than that provided by my iBook then this wouldn’t be an issue, but most sites just don’t display comfortably in Omniweb with the tab drawer open.∞ Jon said 1815 days ago:
Jesse,I have a 12-inch PowerBook, and wow, I totally disagree. I have OmniWeb set up to cover about three-fourths of the screen horizontally, with the other fourth for the drawer to open on the right. I keep the dock hidden on the left, by the way. In this configuration, I pretty much never need to scroll horizontally at all. I have enough room. This site is a great example.
What I don’t have is vertical space. Even when I turn off the toolbar and have the window as big as possible top to bottom, I always have to “scroll bar page” down through a site. This is one of the main reasons I don’t use Safari.
∞ Brutal said 1815 days ago:
I’d switch to Omniweb too – if only it was faster..I’ve managed to get my Safari faster than Firefox by using some terminal commands, and nothing beats it now! (Not even a highly tweaked user.js in Camino)
∞ joshua said 1814 days ago:
Another vote for site specific css. Huge huge nicety for me. I like being able to adjust fonts, but why not just allow full customization?∞ Tony said 1814 days ago:
I just got my first mac (a used iBook G4) over the weekend. I’m still finding my way around. I have to say, I’m having a little trouble thinking what the justification can be for paying for a browser when there are so many more-than adequate browsers that are free. I suppose I’ll have to download the demo of OmniWeb and check it out, but who really needs yet another browser, much less one that costs money?∞ Jon Hicks said 1814 days ago:
“I’m having a little trouble thinking what the justification can be for paying for a browser when there are so many more-than adequate browsers that are free. ”– It all depends on whether you’re happy with a ‘more-than adequate’ browser.
“but who really needs yet another browser, much less one that costs money?”
People who open up lots of tabs for a start. Its not for everyone, but make sure you look at these features:
– Tabs. You can reorder them, alt-drag them to copy them, select a bunch and reload/close/whatever them. Drag them to other windows, double click to open them in a new window….. – Form Editor. Go to any webform with a textarea, click the small widget top right, and you get a separate text editing window. (i’m using it right now) – Workspaces. Spend time with these, they are your friend – Site preferences. Change text display, ad-blocking etc per site. Great stuff
There are lots of other features, but those are the ones you must try out.
∞ Tony said 1814 days ago:
Thanks Jon! I’m downloading now, I’ll check it out. I’m also curious what my site looks like in OmniWeb. It has a couple of problems with Safari, because until now, i had no easy way to check it.∞ Brutal said 1814 days ago:
”– Tabs. You can reorder them, alt-drag them to copy them, select a bunch and reload/close/whatever them. Drag them to other windows, double click to open them in a new window…..”Ok, someone has to explain this to me once and for all:
What it the point with reorderable tabs?
∞ Tony said 1814 days ago:
Ok, someone has to explain this to me once and for all:What it the point with reorderable tabs?
That way you can control what order you cycle through them with your keyboard shortcuts, among other things.
∞ Chris said 1814 days ago:
Omniweb would be the perfect browser if it had a standard set of tabs, by standard I mean small horizontal tabs. It has everything I want feature wise but the tabs, I just can’t get used to using them on my 12” powerbook. And at times when I have 2-3 tabs open there is a huge amount of wasted space.I remember seeing some screenshots of Safari with a normal cocoa toolbar a few months ago, but I couldn’t find them anywhere.
∞ Paul D said 1814 days ago:
_Ok, someone has to explain this to me once and for all:What it the point with reorderable tabs?_
Here’s why it’s important to me: I often have multiple web pages open for two or three unrelated tasks. I might have the day’s unread blogs open for perusal, a few articles open for work research (I write for a living), and then one or two pages open for testing (I also do web design). It’s very useful to be able to keep related tabs together by dragging them around, and it’s annoying when I can’t do this.
∞ Marc Nothrop said 1813 days ago:
Another benefit of Drawers over Sidebars, not mentioned so far, is the ability to choose your preferred side for the list—this is an important aspect of UI configurability, I have my drawers on the right for OW, John, you prefer the left. Yay for choice! ; )As others have noted, the page content panel width becomes ‘brittle’, rescaling, and generally pushing content all over the place (causing your machine to do the work, just so that you can quickly access a feature, or check open tabs), all things seen in IE5, and skEdit, as noted.
It’s just a shame that it looks so good! I like the look, and feel of Sidebars, and Drawers can sometimes look a little, and feel a little ‘wrong’, e.g. I don’t have tabs on the left in apps like OW (that tend to take up most of the screen), as the close box position becomes less predictable, depending on the width of the drawer, rather than being pretty close to the top left corner, for our old fried Fitt.
I tend to agree with you about OmniWeb, John; I really like the browser, it’s tabs, workspaces, search shortcuts, services etc., but agree that the UI looks a little cluttered these days (the competition have upped their game!)... but mainly there are still the performance issues—I guess I push the workspaces too hard, with (apparently) far too many tabs open, OW grinds to a halt for me, and the rendering engine still lags all other browsers.
Damn, why did I every try out the optimised Camio and Firefox builds!? Hopefully the next OW, will benefit from Safari 2.0’s performance improvements, and Omni can home, and speed up the UI and bit.
Thanks for the theme! : )
∞ Jon Hicks said 1813 days ago:
Just for the record, I’m not sure whether the drawer or sidebar is best. In some ways I like the drawer for breaking up the outline of the window.Anyway, its immaterial. Its not as if Omnigroup will see this post and think “we’d better redo all our programming fast!!”
∞ Jon said 1813 days ago:
From #35, Chris: ” It has everything I want feature wise but the tabs, I just can’t get used to using them on my 12” powerbook. And at times when I have 2-3 tabs open there is a huge amount of wasted space.”As I said before, I have a 12-inch and I’m totally the opposite. I often have fifteen to thirty tabs open (for OmniWeb I use the tab ‘list mode’ often), and in Safari horizontally doesn’t scale at all because I have to constantly go to the arrow to choose a tab from the long list. And I need all the vertical space I can get to scroll through pages. The small amount of horizontal space I lose for the drawer is inconsequental. I very rarely have a need to horizontally scroll through a page. What web sites are there that are so bad with a browser window set with an inch or so left over on the side for the OmniWeb drawer?
If you only have two-three tabs open consistently and don’t like the drawer, then perhaps you shouldn’t use tabs at all. Use separate windows and Exposé on Command – ` to cycle through the windows.
∞ Jon said 1813 days ago:
“Exposé on Command – ` to cycle through the windows.”Er, I mean OR not on. Oops.
∞ Joseph Flory said 1813 days ago:
hmmm… I’ve grown pretty accustomed to the drawer in OW.. I kind of like the idea of a sidebar (but it kind of reminds me of the ‘explorer bar’ in IE mac 5). I think app designers have gone a little bit overboard with the drawer thing in general..The one thing with the interface that bothers me visually, and I think it’s been stated before, is the appearance of the ‘favorites’ bar. The type looks a little ‘wimpy’ to me and I’m not crazy about the shadow on the top. I think the favorites bar in firefox looks way more polished. I also hate having a folder instead of the way safari/firefox display the drop-down menus.
The only other thing that bugs me is when you click on the search bar the first time you open the app it takes a couple of seconds for it to open unlike firefox.
These are just nit-picky things, though. Overall, I think everything is implemented well and I love all of the thought that has gone into this browser.
∞ Tony said 1812 days ago:
I’ve been using Omniweb for a couple days now, and you are very right (of course) that there is a lot to like/love about the browser. I have a feeling I would get a little more out of some of the features if I had a two-button mouse (i’m using an iBook without external mouse), but that is besides the point.While I’m becoming accustomed to both a new OS and a new browser at ones, one thing that has been a bit frustrating to me is that the drawer creates a situation where the window control buttons are no longer at the top-left of the window, since I see the drawer as part of the window. A sidebar would certainly fix that, but maybe instead of being a drawer or a sidebar, the tabs can be in a palette. Then it could track all the instances of Omniweb windows, regardless of how they came to be opened.
∞ Jon Hicks said 1812 days ago:
Tony – just set the drawer to appear on the right rather than left.∞ Pat said 1811 days ago:
OmniWeb looks interesting, but the interface isn’t so pleasing, and the design is awkward. Good thing we have Safari 2.0 coming up :D.∞ Tony said 1810 days ago:
I’ve been experimenting with having the drawer on the right. I think I actually prefer the tabs themselves on the left, but because of the drawer metaphor, it works better on the right.One feature I like is that you can set which browser OmniWeb identifies itself as on a site-by-site basis. For instance, I can use Google Maps by identifying as Safari.
∞ ZD Smith said 1808 days ago:
As far as drawers go, I’d even settle for using the drawer, if there were a ‘open drawer when there are two or more tabs’ rule. It’s nice that the drawer will open when I make a new tab, but it’d be nice if it would close again when I’m done.∞ Chris McElligott said 1808 days ago:
From #39, Jon: If you only have two-three tabs open consistently and don’t like the drawer, then perhaps you shouldn’t use tabs at all. Use separate windows and Exposé on Command – ` to cycle through the windows.I could never go back to using single windows, its not like I constantly have thirty tabs open. When browser I open folders with 20-30 tabs in each and I work my way through them closing each one as I’m finished with it. BUt there are times I browse the web with only a few tabs open and there is a huge amount of wasted space.
∞ ozean said 1801 days ago:
Nice Discussion about the pros and cons of drawers! I am also looking forward to Mail having a sidebar instead of a drawer in OS X 10.4.The main place where I think drawers are a great solution is an app where you often keep the window relatively slim. If you would have an internal sidebar the window content would get crushed if you activate the sidebar. An external drawer doesn’t wreak havoc on your window’s contents and therefore is the better solution in that case. Two apps where I would be desolate if the drawer would go away are OmniOutliner Pro and TextWrangler (and BBEdit, I guess). I keep their windows slim – otherwise I wouldn’t be able to follow lines in the code, I and usually have several windows open at the same time to refer to their contents.